Den Nobelpräis-Laureat Abdulrazak Gurnah am Interview

Den Abdulrazak Gurnah, 1948 am Sultanat Sansibar gebuer, lieft a schafft zënter de 60er Joren a Groussbritannien. Hien ass Professer fir englesch a postkolonial Literatur un der University of Kent. 2021 gouf him den Nobelpräis fir Literatur zouerkannt. Seng Wierker waren zu dem Zäitpunkt nach net all op Däitsch iwwersat, an déi déi schonn iwwersat waren, waren dacks vergraff. Elo sinn 2 vu senge Romaner nei op Däitsch erauskomm. De Jérôme an d'Bea hu se gelies, an si hate souguer d'Gelegenheet fir sech mam Auteur doriwwer z'ënnerhalen.

Déi Bicher ëm déi et geet: 
"Das verlorene Paradies" (Originaltitel: Paradise) an "Ferne Gestade" (Originaltitel: By the Sea) allebéid sinn se am Penguin Verlag erauskomm.

© Penguin Verlag

© Penguin Verlag

Hei d'Iwwersetzungen vun de Froen am Interview:

6 Froen un den Abdulrazak Gurnah

Question from RTL BicherLies: What does the renewed interest in your work mean to you? (wat bedeit deen nei erwächten Interessi un Äerem Wierk fir Iech?)

Abdulrazak Gurnah: Well, it’s great, of course, the more the books are translated and disseminated, it can only be something that makes a writer happy.

Dat ass natierlech groussaarteg. Wat d’Bicher méi iwwersat a verbreet ginn, do kann en Auteur sech nëmmen driwwer fréeën.

BicherLies: It has often been said that your novel “Paradise” has parallels with Joseph Conrad’s “Heart of Darkness” Is that the case, and, if so, has it been intentional? (Et ass dacks gesot ginn, dass Äere Roman “Das verlorene Paradies” (Originaltitel: “Paradise” Paralellen mat “Heart of Darkness” vum Joseph Conrad opweist. Ass dat esou, a wa jo, ass dat gewollt?)

Abdulrazak Gurnah: I suppose you could say it makes reference in some way to it, and that is because the location of both journeys, the journey up the river in “Heart of Darkness” and the journey of the caravan from the coast of East Africa end up at approximately the same place. And my reason for doing that, is to say that that conception of that part of Africa as the heart of darkness, in other words, a very very, the most savage place in the world that you could imagine, did not seem so to the people who lived on the eastern side of the continent, who went there and traded there and came back, unterrified and without indulging in cannibalism. So, it is in that respect I suppose, in challenging that location, the great darkness of Africa in that place. Conrad had other ideas and other concerns, but nonetheless he used that metaphor of African savagery and placed it where he did because it was how Europe understood Africa at that time and I think to some extent still does.

Ech mengen, et kann ee soen, dass et sech op eng gewëss Manéier dorop bezitt, an dat ass well béid Reesen, d’Rees um Floss an “Heart of Darkness” an d’Rees vun der Karawane vun der ostafrikanescher Küst a “Paradise”, op ongeféier derselwechter Plaz ukommen. An de Grond firwat ech dat gemaach un, ass well dës Opfaassung dass dësen Deel vun Afrika d’Häerz vun der Däischtert wier, also eng Wildnis, dat huet fir d’Leit op der ëstlecher Säit vum Kontinent net esou ausgesinn. Si sinn dohinner gaange fir Handel ze dreiwen, ouni eppes ze fäerten, an et goung och keng Rieds vu Kannibalen. Also dowéinst hunn ech déi Opfaassung vum däischtere Kontinent Afrika a Fro gestallt. Den Joseph Conrad hat aner Iddien an e wollt eppes aneschtes ausdrécken, awer trotzdem huet hien dës Metapher vum wëlle Kontinent Afrika benotzt, well Europa sech Afrika deemools esou virgestallt huet, an zu engem gewëssen Deel ass dat ëmmer nach de Fall.   

BicherLies: In a postcolonial period, how can understanding (and possibly reconciliation) be furthered? (Wéi kann een an enger postkolonialer Welt méi Versteesdemech erreechen? )

Abdulrazak Gurnah: Well, understanding can be furthered with greater knowledge, of course, and many people are doing their share. Fiction is doing its share, historians are doing their share, various other cultural activists and I guess, social activists are doing their share. I don’t think there is a simple answer, I think that what has to be done, we all have to teach each other about the things that have happened, and so art and culture and history and education, etc, everybody plays their part. We make progress possibly in that way, by being better informed about mistakes or wrongness or cruelties or injustices that have taken place and are taking place.

E bessert Versteesdemech kann duerch méi Wëssen erreecht ginn, a vill Leit droen hieren Deel dozou bäi. D’Fiktioun dréit dozou bäi, Historiker droen dozou bäi, verschidden aner Kultur a Sozial Aktivisten droen dozou bäi. Ech mengen, et gëtt keng einfach Äntwert. Ech mengen wat muss gemaach ginn, ass dass mir alleguer een dem aneren musse bäibréngen wat geschitt ass, an dobäi spillt d’Konscht, d’Kultur, d’Geschicht, d’Edukatioun an esou weider, si all spillen eng Roll. Op déi Manéier kënne mir Fortschrëtter maachen, andeems mir eis besser informéieren iwwer Feeler, Grausamkeeten an Ongerechtegkeeten, déi deemools geschitt sinn, an déi ëmmer nach geschéien.    

BicherLies: In your novel “Ferne Gestade” (Originaltitel: By the Sea) there are many universal themes, such as hat, greed, lies, misunderstandings, etc., but ultimately also a desire for peace. Do the positive oder the negative emotions come out on top? (Am Roman “Ferne Gestade” gi vill universell Themen ugeschwat, wéi Haass, Habgier, Liggen, Mëssverständnisser, etc. Sinn et déi positiv oder déi negativ Emotiounen, déi dominéieren?  

Abdulrazak Gurnah: Well, I think it’s positive. Because what I hope comes out of it amongst other things, apart from observing the wrongness and the difficulties that people do to each other, sometimes out of love, sometimes out of ignorance, is to see that something can be retrieved from it, something can still be retrieved from these traumatic episodes, that’s one thing. The other thing that I think is positive, that I hope “By the Sea” celebrates, is I suppose a desire to hang on to human dignity.

Bon, ech mengen, et ass positiv. Well ech hoffen, dat wat een zeréckbehällt, ënner anerem, ass net nëmmen dass een d’Schwieregkeeten an d’Feeler gesäit, dat wat Mënsche maachen, heiansdo aus Léift an heiansdo aus Onverständnis. Eng Saach ass, ze gesinn, wat ka gerett ginn, wat um Enn vun deenen traumateschen Episoden nach rescht bleift. Dat anert wat ech als positiv ugesinn, a wat ech hoffen dass a mengem Roman «Ferne Gestade» zelebréiert gëtt, ass de Wonsch déi mënschlech Dignitéit z’erhalten.  

BicherLies: Can the two main characters in “By the Sea” ultimately become friends? (Kënnen déi 2 Haaptprotagonisten an “Ferne Gestade” schlussendlech Frënn ginn?)

Abdulrazak Gurnah: Well, let’s not get too optimistic. Perhaps let’s say, they come to understand each other and maybe are developing, slowly, a kind of affection.

Bon, loosse mer net ze vill optimistesch sinn. Loosse mer einfach soen, si fänken un een deen aneren besser ze verstoen a si entwéckelen, ganz lues, eng gewësse Sympathie.

BicherLies: In Herman Melville’s short story « Bartleby, the scrivener” (“Bartleby, der Schreiber”) , which is quoted in your novel “By the Sea”, the main character comes across as very passive. Is it this passivity, that ultimately also leads to the downfall, or at least to the many difficulties that your characters experience?  (Am Herman Melville senger Kuerzgeschicht “Bartleby der Schreiber», déi op e puer Plazen an Äerem Roman zitéiert gëtt, zeechent d’Titelfigur sech duerch eng enorm Passivitéit aus. Ass Passivitéit och dee Problem deen am Roman “Ferne Gestade» de Protagonisten zum Verhängnis gëtt, oder op d’mannst eng Uersaach vun hire Schwieregkeeten ass? )

I don’t think so. I suppose this is what I meant about human dignity. These are both at the stage when we meet them, in their own different ways, of course. Bartleby is utterly defeated for reasons we don’t know about, or at least he appears to be. He seems completely powerless, and he really just wants to be left alone. And it is in this desire, in wanting to be left alone, which is expressed not with rage, or with any kind of profound denial, but simply by a preference: I would prefer not to. And by doing so, he retains, he keeps his dignity as he perceives it, to the very end, which is his death. So, it is to say that even people who are powerless find a strategy for resisting, resisting silently.

Ech mengen net. Dat ass wat ech mengen wann ech vu mënschlecher Dignitéit schwätzen. Op deem Punkt sti si allebéid, natierlech jiddereen op seng eege Manéier. De Bartleby ass, aus Grënn di mir net kennen, komplett um Buedem, oder op d’mannst gesäit et esou aus. Hie schéngt absolut keng Kraaft ze hunn an wëll eigentlech just a Rou gelooss ginn. An et ass dee Wonsch, a Rou gelooss ze ginn , deen hien ausdréckt, net an der Roserei oder andeems en sech selwer belidd, mäi einfach andeems hien eng Präferenz ausdréckt: Ech géif dat do léiwer net maachen. An op déi Manéier behält en seng Dignitéit, sou wéi hien